Comments on Hi-Def DVD Empire: Format War: No End In Sight?

Why haven't there been any talk of making a BLU RA...

2008-02-10T16:55:00.000-08:00

Why haven't there been any talk of making a BLU RAY add on for the HD DVD players ??. They do have a USB port to do that. It would make it available for people to play either. They could do it both ways and make it available for BLU RAY players to play the HD DVD'S also. Or is it just the goal to alienate the consumers that have already bought HD DVD players ?? Just a thought

oh yes...by May when the conversion is complete......

2008-01-07T07:39:00.000-08:00

oh yes...by May when the conversion is complete...HD DVD is done for...I'll be going out to buy my LG BH-100 because I'm not going to replace all of my HD DVDs. Maybe I'll use this as an excuse to get the PS3?! Either way...that was the final nail in the coffin for HD DVD. They sold all those players but the disc sales weren't there for WB to go HD DVD. I still say it's Disney's fault. When I heard that they are starting to release their Platinum Series movies on Blu-Ray....I knew HD DVD was in trouble.

Now that WB switched to Blu-Ray exclusive, I'd say...

2008-01-04T20:30:00.000-08:00

Now that WB switched to Blu-Ray exclusive, I'd say that the end is pretty near.

I've worked my way through college at an electroni...

2008-01-03T23:41:00.000-08:00

I've worked my way through college at an electronics store and I've seen almost every version of HD DVD player that has been released as well as Blu-Ray. In store, our tv's are set on display with no adjustments. We have HD DVD players as well as Blu-Ray players hooked up, all through hdmi. In general, I've had many customers ask me "what's up with this blu-ray and hd dvd stuff?" I think advertising could come a long way and help either format, and I believe they are doing a much better job with this now.

Unfortunately to the average customer though, they see HD DVD and Blu-Ray being the exact same thing, but they find a cheaper hd dvd player. In store, both formats look amazing and would be hard to differentiate. After seeing both formats on a daily basis and getting to use each blu-ray player and hd dvd player, I decided to go the blu-ray route. I think different people have different uses for their player. Not everyone has 7.1 surround sound systems and 1080p tvs. So they can go a little cheaper and get an hd dvd player. However, for me, I want that 1080p/24fps and 7.1 surround sound for not that much more. Plus I prefer the movies that have been/will be released on blu-ray.

This point has been mentioned before also, but I will reiterate it. The super cheap Toshiba A2 was unfortunately a piece of junk. It's not fair to call it junk, but it is not in the same ballpark as any blu-ray player. It was pretty much a really nice upconverting dvd player. This A2 cannot be used in the argument of how HD DVD is a better format than Blu-Ray.

What I think should happen is all the companies need to come together and develop the formats and work together. Competition has been the basis of our economy for as long as our economy has existed. But cooperation would really help expand and develop these formats. A lot of people would argue that prices wouldn't come down without the competition. But people won't pay more than they are able and willing which would drive down prices.

All in all, at this moment I prefer Blu-Ray and I feel it is the superior format.

Yeah I don't advise what the last poster said at a...

2007-12-26T09:19:00.000-08:00

Yeah I don't advise what the last poster said at all. The more people that do that, the longer this format war will go on and the less likely the HD media will survive.

I originally gave in and purchased a Sony PS3 last...

2007-12-24T20:03:00.000-08:00

I originally gave in and purchased a Sony PS3 last year for the following reasons:
1. Blu-Ray movie format and ultimate theater advantages
2. Gaming and entertainment

After adding several new Blu-Ray titles to my dvd collection, I was frustrated to find that some movie titles are only available on one format or another.

Today, I got payback.
I purchased a Toshiba HD-DVD player for under $200 and got seven free movies.

At this point I really don't care who wins the war. I am set either way at least for the next couple of years.

My recommendations are, let the war rage on and let the consumer take advantage of the awesome sales that each side is offering to promote their hardware in anticipation of the software.

The difference between 1080i and 1080p all depends...

2007-12-19T09:42:00.000-08:00

The difference between 1080i and 1080p all depends on the TV. If the TV doesn't de-interlace the 1080i correctly (which most don't), then yes, 1080p would look better. One of the things that makes the most difference to me is the 24fps. But Mike is right, no one is buying into this war. Unfortunately, price shouldn't matter. If you look at Toshiba, they've had their little $100 fire sales to get rid of their HD-A2's, but it still didn't increase software sales for them. Truly I think the price argument has been made a thousand times before, and HD DVD proved it wasn't all about price. The way I see it, you pay $100 for a cheap piece of equipment, you get a cheap piece of equipment. One that doesn't load menus correctly, freezes, skips, randomly fast forwards, has a long load time (both formats have that, except on the PS3 and newer Blu-Ray players). It also doesn't have 7.1 sound or 1080p (again, for me, it's the 24fps that matters the most). Basically what everything seems to boil down to is one format that people say is "good enough" and settles for, while there's another format that doesn't require comprimise (you can have both, great picture and great sound at the same time).

What if they had a format war and nobody came? Nin...

2007-12-18T19:21:00.000-08:00

What if they had a format war and nobody came? Ninety percent of recent purchasers chose regular good old dvd. Most people Ive talked to could care less about the format war, and most seem to think theres not enough difference between an upconverted dvd and blu-ray / hd-dvd. Seen it more than once myself, and not impressed enough to shell out money for the difference yet. Once they get below $150 regular price maybe I'll buy, but Ill bet it wont be blu-ray first to do it. Disc space means squat unless you burn huge files- most people do not. What they see is price. On a final note I find it funny when I read all to often the 1080p over 1080I. From what I've read, that means squat as well. Follow this link if you don't believe me.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/

Troy is around 30gb. But you must not have read w...

2007-12-17T20:47:00.000-08:00

Troy is around 30gb. But you must not have read what I said. WB ports over their titles. That's why the bitrate is so low on a title like Troy. Yes, HD DVD can peak at around 30 when not using any sort of HD audio, however most titles like Troy stay around 15. If you'd like to visit http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338
They can break it down pretty simply for you. Yes, that is a biased site, however that's just the simple mathematics of it. No way to be biased there. And of course you can't tell the difference in the stores. Their TV's aren't set up to optimize what's being input, which would be impossible anyway due to lighting and all sorts of other factors.

If the average bit rate is 15mbps, that is still f...

2007-12-16T08:28:00.000-08:00

If the average bit rate is 15mbps, that is still far below the HD-DVD limit of 30. You're not selling me on it.

'Believe me it matters.' Have you had an impartial person see a difference? All the blogs I read have such polarizing opinions it seems like Sony and Toshiba has their employees out in force. In the store, I could not tell a substantial difference.

How much of the 50 Gig BR Disc is used for the average movie? Take Troy, since it seems like you have it.

You're right, the 50gb discs wont matter if compre...

2007-12-13T09:54:00.000-08:00

You're right, the 50gb discs wont matter if compression isn't done right... But compression is being done right. See one of the problems isn't so much because of the 30gb discs (by the way, don't compare WB discs as the 50gb discs they release are ported over from HD DVD and therefor obviously wouldn't fill all of the 50gb disc), it's because of bandwidth and bitrates. On HD DVD, the peak bitrate for video that you can reach is around 30mbps. On Blu-Ray, the peak is 50. That's quite the difference, and believe me, it matters. Speaking of WB titles, all you have to do is take a look at a movie like Troy. There's actual compression artifacts in the darker scenes (which ussually are around 7mbps). For most of the film, it hovers around 15mbps. It's like that on a lot of WB ports. One of the problems with a low bitrate like that is that it doesn't preserve film grain very well. So, like I said, you are right, the disc space wouldn't matter if the compression isn't done right. However, the compression is and normally (from a non-nuetral studio) it takes full advantage of the 50gb.

I purchased a HD-DVD player with 1080p/24Frames ca...

2007-12-12T10:42:00.000-08:00

I purchased a HD-DVD player with 1080p/24Frames capability to go with a TV that also runs 1080p/24. Picture is great!

How is BluRay better? It isn't. In the end BluRay or HDDVD will only be as good as the studios that put them together. BluRay has 50 Gig and HD has 30, but that is only PART of the story. Compression is another part. Space used on the disc is another. After all, if BluRay Movies are using half the space, is it better than a HD DVD?

One thing that annoys me is that the combo Discs are more expensive. There is NO WAY a combo disc should cost $5 or more than a single HD disc. After all, I see DVDs for about $1 all the time. Save me the trouble and package the DVD as a two pack with the HD-DVD if its a must.

I went with Blu-Ray mostly because well my PS3 rep...

2007-12-07T11:58:00.000-08:00

I went with Blu-Ray mostly because well my PS3 replaced my PS2 which replaced my original PS. People talk about region coding on the BD, it has 3 regions and for me there is no problem as I live in Japan and from the US, so I get to have my cake and eat it to. I purchased a Japanese PS3, I can watch any US BD and play any US PS3 game, the only thing I can not watch on it are my US Region 1 DVDs, though I could actually make a copy of all my movies with removed region coding and watch away. Oh well, that is what I have my XBox for since I don't play any games on it hardly. My BD collection is now up to 80 movies and growing. Some are repeat titles I had on DVD, just gave those to a friend as no need for them any longer.

Is Transformers really a breaking point for some people? The movie actually was pretty bad as far as dialogue goes, sound wise it would be pretty intense if one had a real setup to take full advantage, but in a few months it will be released on BD anyways and those that want it, can then pick it up. HDDVD can hardly be found here, I would say BD outnumbers HDDVD on store shelves by about 4-1 if not more, this is on the Japanese economy and it is even worse for HDDVD inside the military base exchanges, where BD outnumbers like 8-1.

Also people always bring up price points, but we are talking HI-DEF here, so why would anyone be ignorant enough to purchase something that doesn't give them true HI-DEF experience and talk up their cheap ass and say BD sucks because it costs more. Go ahead and buy the cheap Chinese players that don't deliver audio or video in hi-def formats, real hi-def not a watered down 720/1080i and just 5.1. Of course BD costs more, but then look at Toshibas top model HDDVD player and its price, hmmmm it's right on par with the BD players.

Another thing that I always laugh at, people say BD can't do PIP and go to the studio and grab extra content...hmmmm, let's see I bought a movie to WATCH the movie, not listen to the jackass talk about why he did this scene this way or was going to do it this way, but all of sudden a bad case of the shites came over him and he had to leave his directing chair for a few minutes. I never watched extra content on DVD, so why would I start now? This point when brought up is just really dumb to me because if I was ever over somebodies house to watch a movie and they put on the damn director's commentary or PIP, I would just get up and leave. There is no real way to enjoy a movie with that extra crap going on. I would rather the damn studios not put any of that shite on the discs and maybe lower the prices some. They could then sell an extra disc for those people that want that crap for a small amount instead of forcing it upon everyone.

Actually, most Blu-Rays use AVC now. As for HD-DV...

2007-12-05T13:51:00.000-08:00

Actually, most Blu-Rays use AVC now. As for HD-DVD's looking better, that could either be a hardware issues or fanboyism. How'd you test Blu-Ray on your TV if you own HD DVD?

I love these talks.I own an HD-DVD player and I ho...

2007-12-04T09:59:00.000-08:00

I love these talks.

I own an HD-DVD player and I hope sony falls flat on their face. It is not just BetaMAX, but almost any format that Sony has ever backed has failed.

AS far as picture quality, I have heard no one mention the real issue here. I personally don't care which one holds more data.
All I care about is what it looks like on my tv... HD DVD DOES have better picture quality. It uses the newer VC-1 Codec compared to mpeg which is still what blu ray is using. Ask anyone that has seen them side by side and they will tell you hd dvd looks better.

Oh, and I am watching mine on a 1080i plasma.

I am beginning to think some posters here work for Sony...

I still haven't seen anyone say why HD-DVD is bett...

2007-11-28T12:07:00.000-08:00

I still haven't seen anyone say why HD-DVD is better. I see people that think that it will win because of movie selections but if that were true than HD DVD would already be winning. On this site alone, you can see there's only a total of like 15 exclusive HD DVD's available for pre-order. I've seen a lot of "Sony sucks, so HD DVD will win" and "Beta lost, so will Blu-Ray" and "Porn". None of that applies or is actually evidence that HD DVD will win. One person did bring up a good point about Blu-Ray not being a familiar name which is true. However with enough exposure, which has been happening a lot lately with the "I Do Blu" commercials, people will recognize it. As stated before by myself and others, at this point price wont matter. Toshiba's low prices are actually killing HD DVD as we speak. Onkyo's player couldn't be released because of Toshiba's low prices (even though it's the same Toshiba player with just a different shell). Plus, a smart consumer should be like "why is this so cheap? There has to be a reason." Obviously there are reasons (overstock of a discontinued item, and a generally low quality faulty product). Plus I hope that most people that are seriously getting into HD media, and not just purchasing a player due to a firesale, will do their research about both formats. Yes, it's great that Toshiba sold all those players, but what are they using them for now? Apparently not HD movies, otherwise the sales numbers would've gone up for HD DVD which they didn't.

I think that a format that does not support PC/MAC...

2007-11-27T12:56:00.000-08:00

I think that a format that does not support PC/MAC writtable functionality will fail, because the majority of product to be sold will be PC-centric. PC users will not accept read-only functionality. I think this is the ultimate failing of HD-DVD. They claim that they are forward compatible, but this only benefits the manufacturers. The consumer deserves consideration and if they can not reap the benefit of a universal use format, the half the consuming audience is lost.

angusdru

Sorry SONY and Blu-Ray, HD-DVD is going to nail th...

2007-11-21T18:25:00.000-08:00

Sorry SONY and Blu-Ray, HD-DVD is going to nail this one down. As many here have said, because of price and soon because of content. Also, HD-DVD sounds familiar to most consumers (Blu-Ray? What's that?), but the key will be cheap players. And content. Also, SONY is arrogant and their sneaky DRM moves have been onerous and offensive to many -- everybody hates them. Sooner or later that catches up with you.

HD-DVD is plenty good enough, the average consumer does not care about the tech wars fought by geeks on forums, they buy what seesm safe and familiar and they can afford. That's HD-DVD.

This debate is really hurting my brain. What is t...

2007-11-20T15:20:00.000-08:00

This debate is really hurting my brain. What is the fuss?!?!?! How can so many intelligent people still debate the obvious? Which will win and when? It's simple, Blu-Ray will win...why? You have to read the entire posting to see prediction on when...:-)

1) BD players are more expensive but we aren't talking about buying an Audi over Kia, it's matter of few dollars. Wise up people, it's about quality and those who purchased $99 HD-DVD players are watching upscaled DVDs, no more no less. You should have just kept your DVD player...It's about quality and this isn't Beta versus VHS. We are people of technology now...back then, we had no PCs!!! Technology has made leaps and bounds since the glory days of Disco...so too have our insatiable appetite for technologically advanced toys.
2) Playstation 3 will soon be the dominant player that PS2 has been for years. In the next 12 months, games on PS3 will showcase exactly why PS3 versus Xbox 360 is like Audi versus Kia...they both work if you are going from point A to point B...but most of us want to get their reliably and with style. When FF13 hits the stores and God of War 3, the next-gen console war will be over.
3) Paramount will wise up and release on Blu-Ray sooner than the 18 month contract. There is no denying quality and just like Disney's choice to go with Blu-Ray, so soon will all the others.

In summary, PS3 and Blu-Ray are the measuring sticks...they are both exceptional! In the beginning, multi-celled organisms ultimately beat out the single celled organisms...but even that did not happen overnight...it took millions of years. It took God himself 7 days to create Earth...so to must we wait to see the dominance of Blu-Ray.

I predict by end of Q2 08, even Toshiba will tip their hat to Sony.

How about that Wal-Mart leak on PS3 deal...I will set foot into that horrible place...I will do so with a smile though.

The fact is that consumers lose with higher prices...

2007-11-20T08:53:00.000-08:00

The fact is that consumers lose with higher prices of wither HD DVD or Blu-ray titles and players versus having just one format. Both of them should have a meeting and agree to do what's best for consumers and release just 1 format. Till that happens, I will refuse to buy either one. However I do own a PS3 but mainly for games not movies.

Ok. I just want to say, HD-DVD supporters, stop!!!...

2007-11-13T15:12:00.000-08:00

Ok. I just want to say, HD-DVD supporters, stop!!! You are trying way to hard to support your inferior product. Everytime you try to make an argument, Clayton slams you back down to Earth. Quit trying... It makes you look desperate.

I personally own both formats, because I must have the best toys on the block and I can afford it without any problems. I even sprung for the full 1080p HD-DVD player. I have a 1080p tv, a surround stereo receiver with 7.1 and HDMI inputs, and everything is connected with $100 Monster 700 HDMI cables; so let's just say that I have seen and heard both formats at their absolute best.

So, that being said, I'm going with Blu-Ray... HD-DVD fans (especially the ones whose biggest argument is that HD-DVD has Transformers).. just stop to really THINK for a minute and listen to Clayton. He knows what he is talking about.

Tell me one place that has cheap (and I mean quali...

2007-11-05T13:42:00.000-08:00

Tell me one place that has cheap (and I mean quality wise) Blu-Ray players for $99. As for the players that sold out, that's because Best Buy didn't stock them. They've been gone for a while. I actually believe they were discontinued a while back but they didn't sell so that's why they had this sale. But not in all states, due to No Dumping laws. That's where a foreign company can't sell a product that's not moving over there, here in the US for less than it costs to manufacture it. And you didn't say it was for gaming, you were talking about pricing. As for Face/Off, I'd hate to tell you this but it's actually on Blu-Ray in the U.K. (and Japan) with uncompressed audio and on a 50gb disc. And it will play on U.S. Blu-Ray players.

I think your missing my point..sure I would cost t...

2007-11-05T09:03:00.000-08:00

I think your missing my point..sure I would cost the same to get a PS3 as it would to get a 360 + HD DVD. But I'm a gamer and when buying a PS3, your getting a Blu-ray player with the pirk of being able to play a few games. With the Xbox 360 + HD DVD you are getting the ultimate gaming machine and HD DVD. IF I were to go Blu-ray (for me) I would need to spend $499 (for the lower end PS3) + $399 (for the higher end Xbox 360)= $900 for High end gaming + High Deff movies (oh and no Transformers) Just bought "Face Off" HD DVD only :)) Oh and another thing...on 11/2 many stores were selling the A2 HD DVD for $98.00!!! From what I am hearing if you didnt get one early, SOLD OUT! Tell me one place that is sold out of Blu-Ray players.

Yes but then the 360 was $399 and the HD-DVD add o...

2007-11-03T09:29:00.000-07:00

Yes but then the 360 was $399 and the HD-DVD add on was $199... How much was a PS3? $599 and $499? Unless you mean you got the basic 360 package without any HD equipment and then bought it all later (which would add up to more than $399). I went into that $197 HD-DVD player in other other post in the HD-DVD section. Apparently my comments aren't getting published anymore though...

What’s funny is your talking about future prices w...

2007-10-31T13:03:00.000-07:00

What’s funny is your talking about future prices with PS3. I’m referring to the day 360 HD DVD was released. Oh and by the way as of last week, stand alone HD DVD players are $197........